[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / 777 / posad / i / a / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Captcha
Tor Only

Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Matrix   IRC Chat   Mumble   Telegram   Discord


File: 1722382827507.png ( 11.02 KB , 60x71 , 00.png )

 No.483256

This was a failed state and its still worshipped by losers like you lmao
>thread got saged from .ogre
>>

 No.483258

Y-you too.
>>

 No.483260

>>483256
You have to at least explain why you think the Soviet Union was a failed state ?

>its still worshipped by

Its funny because the Soviet union lives in your head too. Yours is just a different kind of worship
>>

 No.483262

>>483260
>biggest socialist experiment in history
>went from an underdeveloped feudal monarchy to an industrialised superpower
>despite its achievements it still fell
I'm sick of the red, the wheat stalks, tractors and hammers and sickles ngl
>>

 No.483264

>>483262
OP has piss where his brain should be.

SAGE
>>

 No.483267

>>483264
Y-you too.
>>

 No.483268

>>483256
>went from an underdeveloped feudal monarchy to an industrialised superpower
The interwar period saw insane levels of poverty and famine so you're obviously not bragging about that part. Basically all of the USSR's social and economic development came after WW2 when the red army looted half of europe and asian. And after 40 years they burned through all that loot and the USSR was forced to disband. An absolute failure no matter how you look at it.

The USSR was literally the nation equivalent of a methhead from a trailer park winning the lottery and then wasting all the money and ending up broke again.
>>

 No.483270

>>483268
Well if you're just going to make shit up then I guess you're right anon, there's nothing more to say! Have a nice day.
>>

 No.483281

File: 1722506629238.jpeg ( 246.65 KB , 1440x1100 , unsere kampf.jpeg )

>>483260
>You have to at least explain why you think the Soviet Union was a failed state ?
Are you so fucking retarded that you do not see the answer to your question in the fucking NAME of this thing?
Here's another hint, retard: the USSR was, for some strange reason, formed only after years of civil war in Russia & @ the start of the Polish campaign not right after the bols sparked the fighting. Now lurk some more, faggot.
>>483262
>biggest socialist experiment in history
<socialism is when my beloved nation tl;dr
Back to the mines nazoid.
>went from an underdeveloped feudal monarchy to an industrialised superpower
By exploiting underdeveloped nations & keeping them in the same colonial status like with Cuba, which couldn't scramble the sugar production precisely because of the policies of the US SU, which sparked constant bitterness in relations between the sides. What a thing to celebrate, nigs!
>despite its achievements it still fell
*Because of its achievements in capitalist development it could be radically restructured by the party elite into a new set of entities where they could gain even more power over production relations by reforming the internal policy, even if that would result in the destruction of a union agreement.
What a thing to celebrate, fags!

It's like your shitty marxism instantly evaporates whenever there is talk about your sacred nazi cows, huh! Very marxist of you indeed, cucks. Keep working for your nazoid dindu shitholes further, faggots, only then you will finally have your real true actual (we even have to constantly remind you of this) socialism for one nation by 20/88.

Also funny, btw, how your nazi shitholes always had "problems" with pogromian chauvinism from SU to China to Korea to Vietnam to Romania to Poland to etc etc etc. Would be a real treat to see how you cucks would try to "explain" this shit @ least too.
>>

 No.483282

>>483281
>exploiting underdeveloped nations & keeping them in the same colonial status like with Cuba
rofl, that's a new one. Are you testing out new John Birch propaganda?
>>

 No.483286

>>483281
So according to your confusing statements the Soviet Union was a failed state because you don't like the name, and because of when exactly it was formed after the period of revolutionary struggle ?

That's some weird ass criteria for calling something a failed state.
>>

 No.483288

File: 1722533585747.jpg ( 48.16 KB , 322x500 , 58d31575b1f90d1f9525fa87c0….jpg )

>>483270
>Well if you're just going to make shit up then I guess you're right anon, there's nothing more to say! Have a nice day.
1. quote the part you think is incorrect
2. write a short argument explaining why you think it's incorrect
3. attach evidence to support your argument

>The interwar period saw insane levels of poverty and famine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

>Basically all of the USSR's social and economic development came after WW2 when the red army looted half of europe and asian.

http://eh.net/book_reviews/the-debit-and-%D1%81redit-%D0%BEf-war-or-how-stalin-made-a-trillion-dollars-the-unknown-economic-history-of-the-ussr-before-during-and-after-world-war-ii-1940-1953/
Not to mention all the free war materiel shipped by the allies to keep the USSR in the war. The stuff that wasn't free was bought on credit which Stalin immediately refused to repay as soon as WW2 was over.

As history shows it took 40 years for the USSR to waste all that wealth they gained during WW2 and collapse in on itself.
>The USSR was literally the nation equivalent of a methhead from a trailer park winning the lottery and then wasting all the money and ending up broke again.
>>

 No.483313

>>483288
If you're linking to the wikipedia article on the hoholomor I'm inclined you just came here to troll. That's a piece of refuted nazi propaganda that the cia ran with so they can say that stalin and hitler are equally bad.

>As history shows it took 40 years for the USSR to waste all that wealth they gained during WW2 and collapse in on itself.


Pretty sure their gdp was growing (if slowly) right up until the dissolution. What makes you think they were wasting money? What makes you think that's what caused the dissolution of the soviet state?

Also if something comes to an end, does that automatically mean the whole thing was a failure? Are you going to ignore all the achievements they made, like beating the Nazis, going to space, pulling everyone out of poverty and giving them education and healthcare?

I feel like you were just conditioned to hate commies and now you want to shit on the USSR. Think whatever you want, but you have a huge bias for some reason.
>>

 No.483315

File: 1722724856879.jpg ( 226.1 KB , 2608x1649 , i9Untitled.jpg )

>>483256
>biggest socialist experiment in history
<collapsed by a pack of liberals and happy meals
>>

 No.483317

>>483315
This is unfortunately pretty much true, and quite sad.
>>

 No.483349

File: 1722875387949.png ( 293.17 KB , 624x624 , ClipboardImage.png )

Stalin did nothing at all. blaming failings and bad actions on political figures are complete nonsense. especially if it's the USSR and country similar to it where they decide on things very collectively.

no, i have never read marx or any lefty books.
>>

 No.483350

Nah, you're right the USSR was a degenerated worker's state and Stalin was a counter revolutionary that glorified bureaucracy.
>>

 No.483351

>>483313
>everyone who doesn't deny the holomodor is a troll
Read a book.

>refuted nazi propaganda that the cia ran with so they can say that stalin and hitler are equally bad.

Nobody thinks stalin is bad. Go out in public with hammer and sickle or antifa logos nobody will say a word. Go outside with nazi logos you will literally get arrested.

>Pretty sure their gdp was growing (if slowly) right up until the dissolution. What makes you think they were wasting money? What makes you think that's what caused the dissolution of the soviet state?

Read a book.
https://www.britannica.com/story/why-did-the-soviet-union-collapse
>By some measures, the Soviet economy was the world’s second largest in 1990, but shortages of consumer goods were routine and hoarding was commonplace. It was estimated that the Soviet black market economy was the equivalent of more than 10 percent of the country’s official GDP. Economic stagnation had hobbled the country for years, and the perestroika reforms only served to exacerbate the problem. Wage hikes were supported by printing money, fueling an inflationary spiral. Mismanagement of fiscal policy made the country vulnerable to external factors, and a sharp drop in the price of oil sent the Soviet economy into a tailspin.

>Are you going to ignore all the achievements they made, like beating the Nazis, going to space, pulling everyone out of poverty and giving them education and healthcare?

All of which happened much sooner in countries outside the USSR. Except maybe the space thing which was a waste of time. You shouldn't be celebrating weapons research while your people are starving to death. Japan got fucking nuked twice and still came out ahead of Russia.

>I feel like you were just conditioned to hate commies and now you want to shit on the USSR.

<I feel like you were just conditioned to hate nazis and now you want to shit on the 3rd reich.
What are you talking about?
Nazism is an evil ideology responsible for massive amounts of death and suffering and poverty.
Communism is an evil ideology responsible for massive amounts of death and suffering and poverty.
It is ok to hate things that are actually evil.

>you have a huge bias for some reason

Because I'm educated and actually know something about this topic. You're the one in fantasy land living on denial and cope.
>>

 No.483352

File: 1722878643199.jpeg ( 79.17 KB , 474x725 , th-3411288154.jpeg )

>>

 No.483357

>>483351
>>483352
Here are some sources that debunk the Holodomor myth:

Books
< Fraud, Famine and Fascism by Doug Tottle
http://rationalrevolution.net/special/library/tottlefraud.pdf

< The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933 by Davies and Wheatcroft

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=32DAA2871728468189A57E0233492A3A

< Lies concerning the History of the Soviet Union by Mario Sousa

http://www.mariosousa.se/LiesconcerningthehistoryoftheSovietUnion.html

< The Soviet famine of 1932-1933 reconsidered

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09668130801999912

< Archive of writings of Professor Mark Tauger on the famine scourges of the early years of the Soviet Union

https://www.newcoldwar.org/archive-of-writings-of-professor-mark-tauger-on-the-famine-scourges-of-the-early-years-of-the-soviet-union/

< Blood Lies by Grover Furr

http://www.readmarxeveryday.ml/bloodlies/index.html

< Pages 95-111 of Another View of Stalin by Ludo Martens - Collectivization and the ‘Ukrainian Holocaust’

https://stalinsocietypk.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/another-view-of-stalin1.pdf

< J Arch Getty reviews “Harvest of Sorrow”

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v09/n02/j-arch-getty/starving-the-ukraine

< The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933 by Mark Tauger

< Natural Disaster and Human Actions in the Soviet Famine of 1931-1933 by Mark Tauger

Articles
< Mark Tauger reviews The Years of Hunger by Davies and Wheatcroft
https://eh.net/book_reviews/the-years-of-hunger-soviet-agriculture-1931-1933/

< Stop spreading Nazi propaganda: on Holodomor

https://socialistmlmusings.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/stop-spreading-nazi-propaganda/

< The Holodomor Hoax: Joseph Stalin’s crime that never took place

http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/08/10/the-holodomor-hoax-joseph-stalins-crime-that-never-took-place/

< Real Stalin series: famine of 1932

https://espressostalinist.com/the-real-stalin-series/famine-of-1932/

< In search of a Soviet Holocaust: A 55 year old famine feeds the Right

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/vv.html

< The Ukrainian famine: only evidence can disclose the truth

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/31/the-ukrainian-famine-only-evidence-can-disclose-the-truth/

< The “Holodomor” and the film “Bitter Harvest” are Fascist lies

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/03/the-holodomor-and-the-film-bitter-harvest-are-fascist-lies/

< Holodomor Hoax: the anatomy of a lie invented by West’s propaganda machine

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201510191028730561-holodomor-hoax-invented-hitler-west

< The famine of 1932-33 in Ukraine the eyes of historians, the language of documents

http://www.archives.gov.ua/Sections/Famine/Publicat/Fam-Pyrig-1932.php

< How many people did Joseph Stalin really kill?

https://anti-imperialism.org/2016/02/16/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-really-kill/

< Evidence that Stalin was unaware of conditions in the Ukraine and tried to relieve the situation when he was informed

http://www.stalinsociety.org/2015/10/03/fighting-the-holodomor-myth-archival-evidence-that-stalin-was-unaware-of-conditions-in-the-ukraine-and-tried-to-relieve-the-situation-when-he-was-informed/

YouTube videos
< Why the Holodomor narrative is wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUEi7v2TMpQ

< Holodomor series - part 1 - fraudulent photos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzXFXdOz_8Q

< Food shortages and problems in the USSR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUO7_SiJCpw

< Did Stalin continue to export grain as Ukraine starved?

https://youtu.be/SMBJ_nQ4sTA

Misc
> "Recent evidence has indicated that part of the cause of the famine was an exceptionally low harvest in 1932, much lower than incorrect Soviet methods of calculation had suggested. The documents included here or published elsewhere do not yet support the claim that the famine was deliberately produced by confiscating the harvest, or that it was directed especially against the peasants of the Ukraine."
Koenker and Bachman, Eds. Revelations from the Russian Archives. Washington: Library of Congress, 1997, p. 401

> "In view of the importance of grain stocks to understanding the famine, we have searched Russian archives for evidence of Soviet planned and actual grain stocks in the early 1930s. Our main sources were the Politburo protocols, including the (“special files,” the highest secrecy level), and the papers of the agricultural collections committee Komzag, of the committee on commodity funds, and of Sovnarkom. The Sovnarkom records include telegrams and correspondence of Kuibyshev, who was head of Gosplan, head of Komzag and the committee on reserves, and one of the deputy chairs of Komzag at that time.

> We have not obtained access to the Politburo working papers in the Presidential Archive, to the files of the committee on reserves or to the relevant files in military archives. But we have found enough information to be confident that this very a high figure for grain stocks is wrong and that Stalin did not have under his control huge amounts of grain, which could easily have been used to eliminate the famine."
Stalin, Grain Stocks and the Famine of 1932-1933 by R. W. Davies, M. B. Tauger, S.G. Wheatcroft.Slavic Review,
Volume 54, Issue 3 (Autumn, 1995), pp. 642-657.

> The Political Bureau believes that shortage of seed grain in Ukraine is many times worse than what was described in comrade Kosior’s telegram; therefore, the Political Bureau recommends the Central Committee of the Communist party of Ukraine to take all measures within its reach to prevent the threat of failing to sow [field crops] in Ukraine.

Signed: Secretary of the Central Committee – J. STALIN
From the Archive of the President of the Russian Federation. Fond 3, Record Series 40, File 80, Page 58.

> It is a matter of some significance that Cardinal Innitzer’s allegations of famine-genocide were widely promoted throughout the 1930s, not only by Hitler’s chief propagandist Goebbels, but also by American Fascists as well. It will be recalled that Hearst kicked off his famine campaign with a radio broadcast based mainly on material from Cardinal Innitzer’s “aid committee.” In Organized Anti-Semitism in America, the 1941 book exposing Nazi groups and activities in the pre-war United States, Donald Strong notes that American fascist leader Father Coughlin used Nazi propaganda material extensively. This included Nazi charges of “atrocities by Jew Communists” and verbatim portions of a Goebbels speech referring to Innitzer’s “appeal of July 1934, that millions of people were dying of hunger throughout the Soviet Union.”

Tottle, Douglas. Fraud, Famine, and Fascism. Toronto: Progress Books,1987, p. 49-51

> QUESTION: Is it true that during 1932-33 several million people were allowed to starve to death in the Ukraine and North Caucasus because they were politically hostile to the Soviets?

> ANSWER: Not true. I visited several places in those regions during that period. There was a serious grain shortage in the 1932 harvest due chiefly to inefficiencies of the organizational period of the new large-scale mechanized farming among peasants unaccustomed to machines. To this was added sabotage by dispossessed kulaks, the leaving of the farms by 11 million workers who went to new industries, the cumulative effect of the world crisis in depressing the value of Soviet farm exports, and a drought in five basic grain regions in 1931.
> The harvest of 1932 was better than that of 1931 but was not all gathered; on account of overoptimistic promises from rural districts, Moscow discovered the actual situation only in December when a considerable amount of grain was under snow.
Strong, Anna Louise. Searching Out the Soviets. New Republic: August 7, 1935, p. 356

> "The conquest of bread was achieved that summer, a victory snatched from a great disaster. The 1933 harvest surpassed that of 1930, which till then had held the record. This time, the new record was made not by a burst of half-organized enthusiasm, but by growing efficiency and permanent organization … This nationwide cooperation beat the 1934 drought, securing a total crop for the USSR equal to the all-time high of 1933."

Strong, Anna Louise. The Stalin Era. New York: Mainstream, 1956, p. 44-45

> in 1920 when the NEP was implemented and the Soviet Union moved from War-Communism, to a temporary stage where a free market existed, the much feared consequences of the market became evident. Despite the previous land reform nearly 3 million peasants, were quickly once again without land, because the kulaks had driven them bankrupt and then bought their land cheaply. This resulted in 10 or 11 percent of the population (kulaks) owning so much land and also horses and machinery compared to the rest of the peasant population that they produced 56 percent of the marketed food. The kulaks largely would decide if the towns would get food or not. Kulak speculation on the food market caused a shortage already in 1927 when the marketed share of grain was only one third of the pre-war years although production had exceeded pre-war figures. This ineffectiveness was what initiated the idea of collectivization, with Lenin writing down the basic idea before his death and Stalin putting down the plans and implementing it. Among the many actions of the collectivization program was the confiscation of farm land and the machinery and livestock that was on it (private property, NOT personal property). However there were some problems;

> “Collectivization was not an orderly process following bureaucratic rules. It consisted of actions by the poor peasants, encouraged by the Party. The poor peasants were eager to expropriate the “kulaks,” but less eager to organize a cooperative economy. By 1930 the Party and already sent out cadres to stem and correct excesses… After having exercised restraint in 1930, the Party put on a drive again in 1932. As a result, in that year the kulak economy ceased to produce, and the new collective economy did not yet produce fully.”
Blumenfeld, Hans. Life Begins at 65. Montreal, Canada: Harvest House, c1987, p. 152

> “During the 1932 harvest season Soviet agriculture experienced a crisis. Natural disasters, especially plant diseases spread and intensified by wet weather in mid-1932, drastically reduced crop yields. OGPU reports, anecdotal as they are, indicate widespread peasant opposition to the kolkhoz system. These documents contain numerous reports of kolkhozniki, faced with starvation, mismanagement and abuse by kolkhoz officials and others, and desperate conditions: dying horses, idle tractors, infested crops, and incitement by itinerant people. Peasants’ responses varied: some applied to withdraw from their farms, some left for paid work outside, some worked sloppily, intentionally leaving grain on the fields while harvesting to glean later for themselves.”

Tauger, Mark. “Soviet Peasants and Collectivization, 1930-39: Resistance and Adaptation.” In Rural Adaptation in Russia
by Stephen Wegren', Routledge, New York, NY, 2005, Chapter 3, p. 81.

> Some of the Kulaks, angered and resentful, rather than integrate into society as an average worker (who frankly lived in conditions 10x better than under Tsarist times), decided to take action.

> They burnt crops and slaughtered livestock, those with machinery broke it if they could. In addition to their vandalism and arson they murdered government officials and peasants siding with them, there are even some (unconfirmed) accounts of them poisoning water supplies.
> “Almost all the collective farms established in 1931 and 1932 were shockingly mismanaged. What else could be expected when every village in Russia had been the scene of bitter internal strife, when animals had been slaughtered or allowed to die through incompetence, and grain had been buried, and barns and houses burned? It has been estimated that livestock dropped by 50% during those tragic years and there were large areas, as I saw with my own eyes in the North Caucasus in 1933, where miles of weeds and desolation replaced the former grainfields…”
Duranty, Walter. Stalin & Co. New York: W. Sloane Associates, 1949, p. 77[10]

> During the thirties, the far-right, linked with the Hitlerites, had already fully exploited the propaganda theme of `deliberately provoked famine to exterminate the Ukrainian people’. But after the Second World War, this propaganda was `adjusted’ with the main goal of covering up the barbaric crimes committed by German and Ukrainian Nazis, to protect fascism and to mobilise Western forces against Communism.”

Martens, Ludo. Another View of Stalin.
Antwerp, Belgium: EPO, Lange Pastoorstraat 25-27 2600, p. 113 (Pg 96 on the internet pdf) [11]

> “This destruction of the productive forces had, of course, disastrous consequences: in 1932, there was a great famine, caused in part by the sabotage and destruction done by the kulaks. But anti-Communists blame Stalin and the `forced collectivization’ for the deaths caused by the criminal actions of the kulaks.”

Martens, Ludo. Another View of Stalin. Antwerp, Belgium: EPO, Lange Pastoorstraat 25-27 2600, p. 79 [p. 66 on the pdf]

< *Famines are always because of Communism*

https://i.redd.it/j22mvokwzo1z.jpg
>>

 No.483358

>>483357
your effort post is appreciated
>>

 No.483418

File: 1723217246871.png ( 293.17 KB , 624x624 , 1693877227317.png )

holodomor is completely fake bullshit that never happend. it relies on changing relevant descriptions and definitions. it's a made-up event and made-up tittle.
>"muh normgroid books!"
>"muh normgroid website!"
>"buh i have a different meaning for it!"
<ACK!!!
anybody who says otherwise is a counter-revolutionary and deserve to be shot

Unique IPs: 9

[Return][Catalog][Top][Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / 777 / posad / i / a / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]
ReturnCatalogTopBottomHome