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TSSI Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:28 No.4385 [Reply]

Any enthusiasts of it on the board? I have read a good chunk of Andrew Kliman's Reclaiming Marx's Capital, but I admit that it mostly clears the deck of red herrings rather than makes an argument for a rigorous mathematical formulation of marxist economics.

In particular it does explicitly formulate how the tprf leads to recurring recessions (directly or indirectly).

I have an electronic copy of the pic book but haven't read it yet.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:28 No.4386

*it does NOT explicitly formulate

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Free Trade vs. Protectionism Anonymous 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:24 No.4345 [Reply]

&ltThe question of Free Trade or Protection moves entirely within the bounds of the present system of capitalist production, and has, therefore, no direct interest for us socialists who want to do away with that system.

>Indirectly, however, it interests us inasmuch as we must desire as the present system of production to develop and expand as freely and as quickly as possible: because along with it will develop also those economic phenomena which are its necessary consequences, and which must destroy the whole system: misery of the great mass of the people, in consequence of overproduction. This overproduction engendering either periodical gluts and revulsions, accompanied by panic, or else a chronic stagnation of trade; division of society into a small class of large capitalist, and a large one of practically hereditary wage-slaves, proletarians, who, while their numbers increase constantly, are at the same time constantly being superseded by new labor-saving machinery; in short, society brought to a deadlock, out of which there is no escaping but by a complete remodeling of the economic structure which forms it basis.

>From this point of view, 40 years ago Marx pronounced, in principle, in favor of Free Trade as the more progressive plan, and therefore the plan which would soonest bring capitalist society to that deadlock. But if Marx declared in favor of Free Trade on that ground, is that not a reason for every supporter of the present order of society to declare against Free Trade? If Free Trade is stated to be revolutionary, must not all good citizens vote for Protection as a conservative plan?

>If a country nowadays accepts Free Trade, it will certainly not do so to please the socialists. It will do so because Free trade has become a necessity for the industrial capitalists. But if it should reject Free Trade and stick to Protection, in order to cheat the socialists out of the expected social catastrophe, that will not hurt the prospects of socialism in the least. Protection is a plan for artificially manufacturing manufacturers, and therefore also a plan for artificially manufacturing wage laborers. You cannot breed the one without breeding the other.

>The wage laborer everywhere follows in the footsteps of the manufacturer; he is like the "gloomy care" of Horace, that sits behind the rider, and thPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

3 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:26 No.4370

>>4348
how can you have a free flow of goods and services without a race to the bottom in terms of wages, whatever country has the lowest wages is where industry will relocate

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:28 No.4388

>>4345
Engels really nails it on the head, but it requires some detangling. Ultimately, the question is dubious in so much that whichever sort of trade the bourgeoise decide, it will never be in service of us. We can only benefit through trade's side effects. Engels in his support of protection, holds ambivalence, and justifies the policy practically. In practice, protection generates more wage labourers, thus protection is beneficial in this sense.
Seeing that free trade and protection are themselves not absolutes, it makes it hard to scrutinise which policy to support like Marx & Engels. Many people can give their economic reasons for supporting either case, but within the practical context of developing class power, the answer is dubious. I know in the case of Trump's protectionism, which is the most recent example of protection, it did significantly increase the amount of wage labourers. The United States is a post-industrial economy. Its uses of protection is purely political in nature. While at the same time, free trade has come with the effects of deindustrialisation and the degradation of living standards.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:28 No.4389

>>4388
*did not

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:28 No.4393

>>4370
what difference does it make. there will at least be some countries where the quality of life is good enough so that people will fight back against the drastic reforms against workers that are inevitable under capitalism.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:28 No.4395

>>4393
Those reforms are impossible when porky can move factories from one place to another, in fact it makes class struggle impossible, just look as the state of UAW.

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Historical Documentary General Historian 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:18:48 No.90 [Reply]

This will be a thread for posting and sharing Documentaries about history as a whole.
I was sitting around watching Step back and I realized it has been a while since I have seen any of those old BBC like documentaries about historical figures.

Doesn't have to be older though. If you have any Youtube links or torrents to look up post them here. Thanks anons.

22 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:22:46 No.2221

DW in spanish just posted this documentary about German Rocket Scientists in Mobutu's Zaire.
It's pretty interesting to see how Elon Musk could have ended if the political door he needed were closed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB26MHTC3Xs
Or invidio
https://invidio.us/watch?v=HB26MHTC3Xs
[b](Those fuckers in DW spanish put 5 ads meanwhile in DW english there is only one, fuck them)[/b]

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:23:10 No.2498

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Found out that Marx Reloaded is on Youtube, a documentary film I always wanted to watch but never could find:
https://youtu.be/o1ZVv0I7DH8

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:12 No.4185

An hour long, fucking amazing documentary about the rise of the islamic empires and their decline into anti scientific quasi isolationism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60JboffOhaw

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:27 No.4379

I found this on youtube regarding the Internationale, short but really good.

The bit with the Communard in the USSR is amazing, never knew they lived that long but it makes sense, only 46 years.

Also love the bit with the different communist leaders in the 1930s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKq5UN9sjqU

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:28 No.4392

A good overall documentary on the History of Neoliberalism

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLATIVW2S3zKMbVlnAHAPR0sHZisHJl4fd

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Is "The Poverty of Philosophy" full of slander ahd lies? Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:25:11 No.3570 [Reply]

https://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/review-poverty-philosophy-karl-marx
This article claims that Marx's "Poverty of Philosophy" is just a slanderous book that has nothing to do with Proudhon's real theories.

Marx doesn't properly quote Proudhon or openly strawmans him. His claims about Proudhon being bad economist in the begining of the book sound laughable since Proudhon was respected economist in his time.

>Comparing Marx’s “reply” to what Proudhon actually wrote, it is hard to take the former seriously. Once the various distortions and inventions are corrected, little remains. Proudhon was right to suggest Marx’s work was “a tissue of crudities, slanders, falsifications, and plagiarism.” (Correspondance [Paris: Lacroix, 1875] II: 267-8) Worse, Marx himself twenty years later embraces in Capital most of the positions he attacks Proudhon for holding in 1847.

>The dishonesty of The Poverty of Philosophy has distorted our view of Proudhon’s ideas and the time is long overdue for a revaluation of Proudhon and his contributions to anarchism and the wider socialist movement. This does not mean that Marx does not, occasionally, presents a valid point – most obviously, Proudhon’s opposition to strikes was wrong as subsequent anarchists recognised – it is just that these are frustratingly few in the midst of so much distortion. So, yes, Proudhon’s mutualism – a form of market socialism based on worker-run co-operatives – does need to be critiqued but Marx’s book is simply not that work.

are there any counter arguments to this?

4 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:25:14 No.3595

>>3582
C4SS's reply basically just repeats what was already attacked in the original article by Mueller (which is a good read btw). All this makes me even more sure that The Poverty of Philosophy is not slander.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:25:19 No.3646

There is a lot of value in the book. It features:
A clear explanation of the hegelian system
The failures of the hegelian system
Incredibly entertaining polemic (Marx will literally work a joke into the structure of his argument and hit you with it 2 pages later)
Creates a clear refutation of market socialism.
It does contain some straw men of M. Proudhon but it's worth the read regardless.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:25:21 No.3667

>>3574
First thing he does in the video is talking about "muh dictatorship of proletariat is bad because it is dictatorship and not democracy". It is a retarded lib video, not worth wasting your time even watching.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:25:23 No.3688

>>3667
no, he doesn't
he says that MLs are communists and as communists they should support direct democracy (at least somewhere in the future) and not to openly support dictatorship which is what Politsturm did in their article.

also, he isn't a lib but an anarchist

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:27 No.4378

btw, is "The philosophy of Misery" by Proudhon worth of reading?

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Translation Project Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:21 No.4308 [Reply]

I need suggestions of things to translate into English.

>ideally fairly short (not a book)
>classic text or unsung new author
>something awesome.

this is along term project I am starting with the New Multitude magazine and we already have one translation completed (Blood and Earth (1958) by Bamaw Tin Aung) and are looking for more.

any suggestions?

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:21 No.4309

We have a translation thread my friend. There are suggestions posted there.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4310

>>4309
this is a different project and I don't want to get it confused with the ongoing project on that thread.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:23 No.4330

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>>4308
imma scan Manuel de Survie by Cesarano sometime cause i couldnt find it anywhere online, i could send it here as a mega link or something when i get around to it i guess
(unless you can find a scan of it already, or even better, an english translation)

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:25 No.4353

>>4330
what's it about?

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Libertarian marxist? Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:19:30 No.411 [Reply]

I'm not sure sure where I sit on the left exactly because i am very sympathetic to alot of ansyn and mutualist anarchist models and also strongly center my belifes around the labor theory of value but I don't belive in the dissolution of the state but instead the state only existing as a democratic and transparent beuracratic entity that can mediate between potential disputes between communes and plan for projects that would involve multiple communes coperation

Would it be apt to refer to this as libertarian Marxism?

51 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:22:05 No.1831

>>1817
I don’t think it’s /a/ and /v/ as much as it is stupidpolyps and chapoids.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:10 No.4163

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Lib-Marx is pretty viable since I believe the state should be restructured to be horizontal rather than hierarchical as it would reflect the socialist mode of production. Take the Zapatista municipalities for instance, since there style of governing is summed up in their motto: "Here the people give the orders and the government obeys". Luxemburg's stressing of socialist democracy also is an idea I resonate with when reading her work, and Marx himself saw the Paris Commune as a DotP. I think it makes sense for a state to be reduced in power, operate on radical, direct democracy, and be ran by the people themselves as an entire class, without individual leaders dominating all.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:16 No.4224

Situ, Post-situ and autonomism is severely underrated and highly relevant to our current problems; both in terms of analysis of capital that has become increasingly dependent on data mining and controlling vectors of information, but also in terms of how we organize better, with a baseline understanding of contemporary cybernetic skills competent international reach and needed organizational complexity.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:16 No.4226

>>4224
They are not underrated, you are just hanging out with imbeciles.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:24 No.4336

>>411
https://libcom.org/files/Murray%20Bookchin-The%20Next%20Revolution.%20Popular%20Assemblies%20and%20the%20Promise%20of%20Direct%20Democracy-Verso%20(2015).pdf
Read him, my friend

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Organising Resources Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4317 [Reply]

/edu/ what are some resources that you've used or know of to help newbies learn to organise?

Obviously "Just join local X to get experience", but just doing prior reading.

MLs, Anarkiddies, Syndies, etc. All sources and styles welcome.

Just trying to build a little portfolio to read and share.

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4319

File: 1608528382650-0.pdf ( 162.22 KB , How to Neighborhood Pod.pdf )

File: 1608528382650-1.pdf ( 222.76 KB , How to Replicate.pdf )

File: 1608528382650-2.pdf ( 173.17 KB , Pod Mapping for Mutual Aid.pdf )

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4320

File: 1608528382744-0.pdf ( 136.81 KB , The Tenants Will Win_ TAN….pdf )

File: 1608528382744-1.pdf ( 3.52 MB , Rent Strike Covid Handbook.pdf )

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4321

File: 1608528382819-0.pdf ( 193.29 KB , DC Guide_ How to Organize ….pdf )

File: 1608528382819-1.pdf ( 116.45 KB , 02. ACORN Organizing Model….pdf )

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4322

File: 1608528382940.pdf ( 13.23 MB , 04. BOBO, MAX, BOBO & KEND….pdf )

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:23 No.4323

File: 1608528383033.png ( 222.65 KB , 500x375 , a cute.png )

>>4318
>>4319
>>4320
>>4321
>>4322
thankee

Did Marx support a strongly centralized state or no? Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:21:52 No.1682 [Reply]

I am open to non-marxist points of view. Evidence for:
>Whilst it forces on more and more of the transformation of the vast means of production, already socialized, into State property, it shows itself the way to accomplishing this revolution. The proletariat seizes political power and turns the means of production into State property.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/04/nationalisation-land.htm
>The nationalisation of land will work a complete change in the relations between labour and capital, and finally, do away with the capitalist form of production, whether industrial or rural. Then class distinctions and privileges will disappear together with the economical basis upon which they rest. To live on other people's labour will become a thing of the past. There will be no longer any government or state power, distinct from society itself! Agriculture, mining, manufacture, in one word, all branches of production, will gradually be organised in the most adequate manner. National centralisation of the means of production will become the national basis of a society composed of associations of free and equal producers, carrying on the social business on a common and rational plan. Such is the humanitarian goal to which the great economic movement of the 19th century is tending.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm
>If man, by dint of his knowledge and inventive genius, has subdued the forces of nature, the latter avenge themselves upon him by subjecting him, in so far as he employs them, to a veritable despotism independent of all social organisation. Wanting to abolish authority in large-scale industry is tantamount to wanting to abolish industry itself, to destroy the power loom in order to return to the spinning wheel.
Let us take another example — the railway. Here too the co-operation of an infinite number of individuals is absolutely necessary, and this co-operation must be practised during precisely fixed hours so that no accidents may happen. Here, too, the first condition of the job is a dominant will that settles all subordinate questions, whether this will is reprPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:21 No.4303

>>4298
>I would say no. He supported the idea of a state ran by the entire working class themselves, but not an all powerful hierarchical one (see: Paris Commune).
Saying that Marx thought the paris commune was the blueprint for communism/socialism is the hot take of the century. His entire writing denouncing idealism and outlining his vision is based on the shortcommings of the paris commune and its orginisation.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:21 No.4305

Why does it matter? Marx wasn't some prophet. Think for yourself.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4312

>>4305
Why does anything matter………..>?

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:22 No.4315

>>1682
We'll never really know because he died before he had the chance to touch in this topic in Capital.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:23 No.4327

>>4303
He and Engels saw it as an example of the DotP. I get they critiqued it too and they never wanted to act like they knew the future though.

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will translate any russian text under 20k words Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:21:12 No.1304 [Reply]

it should take me a couple of days max to do so.
drop links, pdfs, images

if it's larger than 20k lmk and i'll think about it

i'll also do belarusian if needed

39 posts and 15 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:24:09 No.3014

>>2261
This one seems to be good. "Main features of cybernetics"

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:24:09 No.3018

http://lenincrew.com
Could you translate anything by the Lenin Crew? Maybe something that stands out to you? I'm not sure if the Google translation is good enough, but I would like a confirmation if it is accurate. If you could, I would like your thoughts and opinions on the website. Or, if you are busy and cannot do any of my requests, I would at least ask you to translate this:
http://lenincrew.com/imperialism-and-the-transformation-of-values-into-prices/
Although I am welcome to a translation of a work that you deem to be much more important.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:24:53 No.3372

Requesting translations of these images posted in their respective comment sections:
https://lefty.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=translation_request+russian_text

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editor 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:25:13 No.3592

>>1304
hey op, could you contact me via [email protected] about some translation work. you can do it anonymously if you wish.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:23 No.4332

>>1304
requesting:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071125205042/http://gkaf.narod.ru/kirillov/ref-liter/slutch-00.html

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Why is the Proletariat the revolutionary class? Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:18 No.4251 [Reply]

I haven't read much but I'm confused as to why Marx and others conceived of the proletariat as the class that would overthrow capitalism. If we look at history through a materialist lense it seems to me that it's only been a third propertied class overthrows the current system of production, not the people without property. For example, it wasn't slaves that overthrew slavery, it was landlords. It wasn't serfs that overthrew feudalism, it was the bourgeoisie. Every revolution calling itself socialist that actually took state power was led by petit-bourgeois intellectuals like Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Mao, and Fidel Castro and manned mostly not by workers, but by peasants in a semi-colonial semi-feudal relationship to the means of production. Most proletarian movements in advanced capitalist societies have been reformist and class collaborationist. How, after all of this evidence, can we say that the proletariat is the revolutionary class? How can you say the workers have nothing to lose but their chains when they need capitalism to keep going so they can have running water, electricity, and the spectacle to keep them comfortable?

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well, capitalism is really dumb chode_man 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:19 No.4272

in both examples provided, classes were sediment and predetermined. this allows for middle classes that can flourish and help the workers because they had a common enemy. In capitalism, however, the middle classes are dissolving into either the proletarian or the bourgeoisie. This class organization means that the proletarian will become the ONLY class with revolutionary potential because, eventually, they will be the only non possessing class. for now though, there is some weak solidarity with some petit bourgeoisie so we should take advantage of that as much as we can at least. hope this helped comrade ! :)

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:19 No.4273

>>4272
>they will be the only non possessing class
a non possessing class has never been able to overthrow a class system. Again, who overthrew slavery? It wasn't the slaves. Assuming a non possessing class will overthrow our current class system is a break from all historical trends.

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chode_man 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:19 No.4274

well i am not sure how things will play out, but my point was that the proletarian may have to break that cycle out of necessity. however i dont think we should ignore our petite comrades that, with out the influence of the proletariat, would surley not revolt

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:19 No.4275

>>4274
>but my point was that the proletarian may have to break that cycle out of necessity
just because something is necessary doesn't meant it will happen, remember Marx is not a determinist, he noted that not just proletarian revolution is possible, but that the "common ruin of the contending classes" is just as much a possibility, and if the climate alarmists are correct, this is the where we already are and basically the course change would come too late to matter.

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Comrade 2020-12-21 (Mon) 05:26:20 No.4286

>>4251
The capitalist mode of production is increasingly powerless. In the pursuit of profit, it is stuck in maintaining the infrastructure of society. Infrastructure maintenance is an unprofitable or low-profitable business. But without infrastructure, society cannot function. Only the proletariat, who do not work for profit, can lead the whole society from the inevitable collapse caused by capitalism.